Gas Class A Driving Experience - The F53/Workhorse Has Not Improved Much Since Inception

 Anybody who has driven the Ford or Chevy platform be it Class C or Class A knows how they drive. How bad they are over bumps, frost heaves, road transitions and how bad they sway or get nudged over when a Semi passes by. Our last Class A rig (traded in back in 2013), was a 36ft 1999 Holiday Rambler Endeavor. It's sheer size caused it to drive on flat roads very smoothly, except when bumps etc... came around then it felt like it wanted to tear itself apart. 

We only had that rig 3 years so I didn't get a chance to delve into improving it's ride, plus there weren't many options available at the time. Fast forward several years and FOMOCO/GM/MOPAR has done almost nothing to improve how they come from the factory as a chassis. RV manufacturers don't seem to care how they drive, they tout all the fancy features and options they offer but most offer nothing to make driving a gas rig more comfortable and if you ask the salesperson they blank stare at you.

Let's face it, comfort isn't the only reason to improve ride quality, saving the rest of the rig from vibrating itself to pieces over time can save service center time paying for things that happen due to a moving house being beaten to death on roads that never see maintenance despite politicians bragging about the billions spent on infrastructure improvements. Since 2008 almost a trillion dollars has made it into various administrations for infrastructure improvements only for 600 billion or so lost almost immediately before 2010 and only God knows how much has been lost since. All the while roads and bridges fall further into dis-repair. Even large State tax funded work is done to low standards or take so long they blow out the budget massively only to have the road opened and not improved (Illinois is the very worst).

So what does an RV owner do? Well, our new to us 2016 Flair 29T is lighter than our Endeavor was by A LOT and the cowl shake and front end shudder over transitions, frost heaves and bad roads is flat out frustrating but we deal with it because where we are going is worth the hassle. 

RV manufacturers could easily offer options when new to enhance the ride (heck even when used), I believe Tiffin does but I don't see any others offering it? Does that make sense to you? The most common complaint about gas rigs is ride and sway and in 2023 we are still stuck with it. I'm told the newest F53 based on the Godzilla 7.3 has some improvements but the ride still sucks and also this 7.3 doesn't offer significant power improvements over the 6.8 V10 but it does offer better MPG and better power in the lower RPM ranges. 

As far as suspension goes it is of course up to the RV company or the buyer to improve on the ride so a few companies have stepped up to help (for the right money of course). Steering can be improved for on center feel and return to center, you can remove the bump-stops and add Sumo spring (not springs), add better sway bars, shocks, air bags the works or the fancy Liquid Suspension that costs as much as 30+ thousand to install. 

Imagine throwing 30k of negative equity into your rig to make it ride closer to a stock DP? When you buy a rig, the dealer, who could make a decent amount of money doesn't even offer these as options. Perhaps because when financing, the bank won't allow an extra 30k to be put onto the loan? I'm sure they have reasons but none of them around me offer anything except for General RV at $250.00hr. That's the other thing, RV service has doubled over the last 10 years in my area, DOUBLED.

I have watched more videos, read more articles on the F53 suspension than you can believe. I of course want the liquid option but there is no way I'm paying that much for a rig that cost 68k used, it makes no financial sense. So what I think we will do is install the steering option, front and rear Sumo springs and new Koni shocks all around and perhaps one day newer sway bars and hopefully that is enough improvement so long trips don't feel like I'm going to rounds with Tyson.

What have you guys done?

Class A Performance Improvements

 Imagine if you will somebody (me) wondering if we can improve both the performance and mpg of our rig. The Endeavor we used to have was the F53 6.8 V10 with 4spd and I believe weight came in around 25,000lbs and our current rig is 16,400 give or take. We know they are slow because they are moving houses after all but a big part of the problem is drivetrain loss and zero programming from RV companies. I imagine a 460 back in the day had about 220hp, with drivetrain loss knock that down to about 110hp making it to the actual wheels.

😱 I know right? The V10 was perhaps 30 to 40hp better and Godzilla is maybe another 20 or so but probably not as delivered by Ford on the F53.  What really gets these behemoths going is TORQUE and it's why diesel pushers, even the low horsepower ones ruled the roads and always will. Even the 260hp ones had 600ftlb and that moves big things easier than 250ftlbs. Some of the mid 2000 and up have 600+hp and 1,800ftlb, I've driven a few, it's like a silky smooth push in the back that just keeps pushing (it's amazing) but the cost is hundreds of thousands.

Can a Class A ever get to that kind of power? Yes, kind of, however in torque the cost would be prohibitive and the engine not very reliable. A turbo would help down low grunt big time (a turbo would be fantastic!!) but it would swallow even more gas, yes, it could get worse than 7 mpg, try 3 or 4. Oy. 😭

So the best we can hope to do is to tune the engine to get some more horsepower and torque, perhaps route cooler air into the intake to help the tune? 

Short answer, YES!! Peak HP and TQ are important but in the run up to peak is the most important factors. Over 100ftlb of TQ gained at 2100rpm is something that can be felt! 40hp gain at 2350rpm's is also nice.

Gains are measured at the wheel, Fleetwood claims 362hp so crank hp gain of around 65 plus approx 130lbft gain at the crank = 427hp / 592ftlbs plus the changes in transmission programming meant to be a motor home, not a basic tune from Ford that none of the manufacturers are changing turns the combo into something you can see a meaningful return on investment over a short period of time.

I should have this by tomorrow or Friday in time to test it out myself. I've done this with my previous Mustang's and my 2018 Mustang GT ran a 12.1@116 stock, with a tune it ran 11.7@123 and a gain of 4mpg on the highway when driving nicely. 

I doubt I'll see much MPG improvement but drivability improvements should be very noticeable. 

Here is a video showing the combo from 5 Star. 

I Thought I got Commenting To Work, Blogger Refuses To Let Me

 Apparently Blogger isn't interested in allowing me to comment 😐 My guess is the captcha isn't being triggered when I try to post the comment. 

TexCyn and others, I'll keep trying, I emailed Blogger support, we'll see if they can figure it out. 

Blogger Issues

 Since I am back to blogging I am trying to comment on other blogs and every single time it says "Sign In" which I of course try to do and it bounces back to "Sign In" and refuses to let me sign in and comment. 

Blogging settings no longer allows me to add/remove people I follow or want to follow or remove dead blogs etc... I can post a blog, but not with video. I have now tried in 5 different browsers clearing cache, DNS heck I even tried on a new computer that has never been on the Internet, same problems persist.

WTF?? 😬

We Picked Up The Rig Saturday Morning

One thing I have to say I love is the view outside through the windshield. 

The TV's work, amazing how selecting the correct input option gets them working 'eh? 😂

We had rain for 14 hours, water came in through the seals so the rig is going back to the dealer. 😐

I hope they'll be able to figure this out, not wanting to go through all that again, we'll see. Here is a screenshot from the video that Blogger refuses to upload. Hard to see the extent of it, it ran all the way to the other side of the rig. I was able to dry it up but when I put the slide in, none of the water was wiped off by the slide seals, not good.

Update From The Dealer On Repairs

 The dealer has been very good at sending me updates. They state everything has been completed but they are waiting for a new wheel cover for the right front wheel. Everything else is done. Now I need to find storage! The place we were going to go to couldn't save us a spot so on to other options, if I can find one!

I found our rig via VIN number on Fleetwood's website, every nut and bolt is documented which is awesome news! Looking forward to another test run this weekend. 

EDIT: I have tried commenting on other blogs but every single time Blogger tells me to sign in and yet I am signed in! I can blog and comment on comments on my blog but nowhere else, I have now tried 5 different browsers... argh. 

We Bought The Fleetwood Flair 29T on 09/09/23

 

We done did something Saturday the 9th, bye bye 40ft Montana albatross hello 29ft Fleetwood Flair. I'm was out in the rig at Paul Wolf doing a quick over night and then it's back to Blackhawk to try and gather up 10 years of "stuff" in the old rig and in the shed.

Both of us feel pretty tired, I rolled my left foot several times which seems to now be a thing so I'm sitting in the recliner trying to come down. The TV's don't get a single channel which where we are at is impossible so I have some homework to do.

I have a device that will read the signal strength coming off the antenna. Only problem is, who knows where it is? So streaming from the laptop to the TV works just as well.

While testing out the recliner it broke in half, so much for Lazyboy quality. The RV is back at the dealer for the following items found on the test outing.

Issues found before and during the test outing:

1. (This was seen during the initial walk through with the Tech) The 1st slide seal facing the slide on the left and right is not making contact towards the bottom of the slide. Interior and mid seals look fine I think. Tech said he is going to check into it. Also he was going to add sealant to cap seal on the roof, unsure if that was completed, I failed to ask after doing to paperwork.

2. Passenger rear window locking mechanism is no longer attached to the window to hold it in place so it's just swinging loose. I taped it closed, it should handle rain if it rains before you guys check it out.
3. The Lazyboy dual reclining loveseat broke, I set up the rig, sat down, reclined and it snapped. I was able to move the upper seat so it sits up straight so I could put the slide back in the next morning.
4. The TV's get zero signal even though the antenna shows signal, all cables check out so it "should" work, I saw this when in the service bay and forgot to mention it to the tech as we went to do the paperwork right after.
5. The left side cabinet over the loveseat bottom board is loose and is sagging impacting both the cabinet and the window decoration (I don’t know if it was already that way).
6. Auto leveling system does not appear to get a signal from the front and right rear back jacks that they are fully raised after retracting, the top center and right LED blink, the others turn off.

7. Fake Lugnut cover is broken and rattling around in the right front hubcap.

8. Dash AC isn't very cold, should definitely be colder than it is, the sales person saw this during        the test drive

9. The passenger seatbelt is VERY difficult to put in place and harder to remove, they adjusted the          drivers side but the passenger side is still difficult. The sales person saw this during our test                 drive.

First outing at Paul Wolff Campground on Big Timber Road

Purchased on 09/09/23, a Fleetwood Flair 29T

Retired Blogs Taken Over By Scammers

 

I've been going through my blog list and found many have been taken over by scammers. "My Old RV" signed off a few years ago and now this mess is what remains. As I went through the list I found many more, this is just sad. The stories of somebody's life just disappear, I like to look back at some blogs for information they gave or to just enjoy their story one more time.

It's sad how many people I have followed over the years are just gone.....